The speech of Abu Mansoor Maturidi

The END of Bralwiyat Razakhaniyat by Abu Mansoor Maturidi, founder of Maturidi Madhab that Brelwis claim to follow. He annihilates the creed of Hazir Nazir and knowledge of the Unseen for Messengers…

Abu Mansoor Maturidi wrote in his Tafsir “Taweelat Ahle Sunnah” also known as “Tafsir Al-Maturdi” in Surah Maidah verse 109:

[Be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the Messengers and say, “What was the response you received?” They will say, “We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen“”

The people of Taweel (Tafsir) said: they (Messengers) would only say such because of the panic from the terror of that day and its severity, their hearts will evaoprate and their hearts will be bewildered, so they will say: “We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen“.

If such was said by them because of the panic and terror, according to what was claimed by the people of Taweel (Tafsir), to produce a reply would not be possible for them (as they are panik striken), and indeed they replied: “We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen“, this indicates that it is not because of what they mentioned (as reason) but because of two other (possible) reasons, and Allah knows best.

The first of them: that He asked them about the reality of the response of their people IN THEIR INTERIOR, meaning YOU DID NOT DISCLOSE TO US THE KNOWLEDGE OF THEIR INTERIOR and the UNSEEN, YOU are aware of it.

Second: They invented matters and innovated from themselves and attributed these to Messengers, as His saying:

“And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me (- to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.)” (Maidah 116-117)

As if they said that Isa (peace be upon him) was the one who called them to this (innovations) so He would say to them (Messengers): “What was the response you received?” So they will reply: We have no knowledge about what they claimed about us from the matters they brought (innovations), it is You who is Knower of the unseen that we did not told them such, and we did not call them to the matters they claim (that we called them to)”

And The Taweel os this verse is based upon these two reasons, Allah knows best”

End of speech of Abu Mansoor Maturidi:

1) Abu Mansoor only quoted part of verse 117 but I put it fully under brackets so people see context.

2) The first explanation given by Abu Mansoor Maturidi denies that Messengers have been given knolwedge, meaning ATA’I knolwegde, of the internal condition of the people, so they only know what they showed to them and Allah only know their internal condition

3) The second explanation of Maturidi shows that the Prophets were not aware of the innovations the people introduced after them and their claims

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639581022977372&set=pcb.1639581132977361&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639581076310700&set=pcb.1639581132977361&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639581116310696&set=pcb.1639581132977361&type=1&theater

The speech of Fakhr Ar-Razi

Fakhr Razi, among greatest Ashari reference, said in his “Tafsir Al-Kabeer” also called “Mafateeh Al-Ghayb” in Surah Maidah verse 109:

“The apparent meaning of His speech: ” “We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen” indicates that the Prophets will not witness for their communities, and gathering between this and His saying: “So how [will it be] when We bring from every nation a witness and we bring you, [O Muhammad] against these [people] as a witness?” (An-Nisa 4: 41) is difficult, and likewise with His saying: “And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you..” (Al-Baqarah 2: 143), so if our community will be a witness for all nations, so Prophets deserve more to be witnesses for their nations.

The Answer is from different perspectives:

First one: A group of scholars of Tafseer said that on the day of resurection, there would be quakes and terrors in such a manner that the hearts will be vanished from their state when witnessing this, so the Prophets (peace be upon them) when witnessing such terrors will forget most of matters, and at this time they will reply: “We have no knowledge“, and when their hearts will return to them, then they will be witnesses for their communities. This answer, though a great group of scholars opted for it, IT IS WEAK FOR ME, as Allah Ta’ala said among the attributes of the people of reward: “They will not be grieved by the greatest terror” (Al-Anbiya 21: 103) and He also said: “[Some] faces, that Day, will be bright” (‘Abasa 80: 38), rather He (Ta’ala) said: “Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] – those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve” (Al-Baqarah 2: 62), so how will the state of the Prophets be lower than this and it is known that if they have fear (of such terroros), they would be in a lower status than those about whom Allah informed that they will not fear at all.

The second perspective: the meaning from Him is exageration in exposing their scandals, as the one who says to someone: what do you say about so and so? so he replies: you know better than me, as it is said: this does not necessicate witness to make it apparent, and THIS ALSO IS NOT STRONG FOR ME, because questioning was about the whole community, and the whole community was not disbelievers so the Messengers would want by their denial to make fun of them or scandalise them.

The Third perspective, and IT IS THE BEST REPLY FOR ME, and this is the one chosen by Ibn ‘Abbas: they only said: “we have no knowledge” because you know what they manifested openly and what they kept in their interior, and WE ONLY KNOW WHAT THEY MANIFESTED OPENLY, so Your knowledge about them is more precise than our knowledge, so according to this meaning, they denied knowledge from them because their knowledge compared to Allah’s is like no knowledge.

Fourth perspective in the reply is: They will say: we have no knowledge except that our knowledge is based on their reply to us during our lifetimes, and WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WAS AMONG THEM AFTER OUR DEATHS, so the retribution and reward are only linked to the end and this is NOT KNOWN TO US. So according to this meaning they replied: “We have no knowledge”, and His saying ” it is You who is Knower of the unseen” testifies to the authenticity of these two replies (meaning Third and Fourth perspectives)…”

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639684879633653&set=pcb.1639684972966977&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639684899633651&set=pcb.1639684972966977&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639684929633648&set=pcb.1639684972966977&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639684952966979&set=pcb.1639684972966977&type=1&theater

 The speech of Ismaeel Haqqi Sufi

End of Barailwiyat by speech of Sufi Ismaeel Haqqi in his Tafsir “Ruh Al-Bayan”

Allah said in Surah Maidah verse 109:

[Be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the Messengers and say, “What was the response you received?” They will say, “We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen“”

Ismaeel Haqqi mentioned 3 opinions regarding the Tafsir of this verse, he wrote:

We have no knowledge” of what You alone know “it is You who is Knower of the unseen” and the reason of this is that You indeed know what they keep inside (in their interior) and what they make apparent (as actions) and we (Messengers) ONLY KNOW WHAT THEY MADE APPARENT, so our knowledge is like non-existent compared to Yours…

And from ibn Abbas (rad), this answer (from Messengers) will only be at certain places on resurection and this when the hell is brought, the communities will fall on their knees, there won’t be any close angel or send Prophet except that he will say: Nafsi Nafsi (my soul), this will cause evaporation of the hearts from their places so the Messengers will reply with the severity of the terror of the question and the terror of the place: “”We have no knowledge, it is You who is Knower of the unseen” after their intellects will return to them, so they will testify upon their communities that they transmited the Message and how their people responded…

And it has been said: “We have no knowledge“, it is not intended by it negating the knowledge of their response at the time they transmitted the Message and during the LIFETIMES of the Prophets, but what is intended is to negate their knowledge of what happened to their communities AFTER THE DEATH OF THE PROPHETS, about their ending and that is what is taken into account as reward and punishment truns around the ending, AND THIS IS UNKNOWN TO THEM (MESSENGERS), and upon this meaning they replied: “We have no knowledge” and in the Hadith: “I will be upon my Cistern (Hawd) looking at those among you who will came to it, and by Allah, some people will be turned away from it, and I will say: My Lord, they are from me and my comunity, and He will say: you have no knowledge of what they innovated after you, they turned upon their heels”

“{ لا علم لنا } بما كنت انت تعلم { إنك أنت علام الغيوب } تعليل لذلك اى لانك تعلم ما اضمروه وما اظهروه ونحن لا نعلم الا ما اظهروه فعلمنا فى علمك كالمعدوم وهذا الجواب يتضمن التشكى من الامم كأنه قيل علمك محيط بجميع المعلومات فتعلم بما ابتلينا من قبلهم وكابدنا من سوء اجابتهم فنلتجىء اليك فى الانتقام منهم

وعن ابن عباس رضى الله عنهما ان هذا الجواب انما يكون فى بعض مواطن القيامة وذلك عند زفرة جهنم وجثوّ الامم على الركب لا يبقى ملك مقرب ولا نبى مرسل الا قال نفسى نفسى فعند ذلك تطير القلوب من اماكنها فيقول الرسل من شدة هول المسألة وهول الموطن { لا علم لنا انك انت علام الغيوب } وترجع اليهم عقولهم فيشهدون على قومهم انهم بلغوهم الرسالة وان قومهم كيف ردوا عليهم فان قيل كيف يصح ذهول العقل مع قوله تعالى
{ لا يحزنهم الفزع الاكبر }
[الأنبياء: 103].

قيل ان الفزع الاكبر دخول جهنم: قال السعدى قدس سره
دران روزكز فعل برسندوقول اولوا العزم را تن بلرزد زهول
بجايى كه دهشت خورد انبياء توعذر كنه را جه دارى بيا
برادر زكار بدان شرم دار كه درروى نيكان شوى شر مسار
سراز جيب غفلت بر آور كنون كه فردا نماند بخجلت نكون

وقيل قولهم { لا علم لنا } ليس المقصود منه نفى العلم بجوابهم حال التبليغ ولا وقت حياة الانبياء بل المقصود نفى علمهم بما كان من الامم بعد وفاة الانبياء فى العاقبة وآخر الامر الذى به الاعتبار لان الثواب والعقاب انما يدوران على الخاتمة وذلك غير معلوم لهم فلهذا المعنى قالوا { لا علم لنا } وفى الحديث ” انى على الحوض انظر من يرد علىّ منكم والله ليقطعن دونى رجال فلأقولن اى ربى منى ومن امتى فيقول انك لا تدرى ما احدثوا بعدك ما زالوا يرجعون على اعقابهم “.

Allah said: “”And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me – to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness” (Maidah 116-117)

Ismaeel Haqqi wrote in Tafsir of this verse:

And I was a witness over them” observer, I would look after their condition and encourage them to act according to Your orders and forbid them from opposing them, or witnessing their states of Kufr and faith “as I was among them” meaning DURING THE TIME OF MY STAY AMONG THEMbut when You took me up” meaning when You took me from them and raised me towards the sky “You were the Observer over them” meaning You, NO OTHER THAN YOU, You were Guardian over their actions, observing them…”

{ وكنت عليهم شهيدا } رقيبا اراعى احوالهم واحملهم على العمل بموجب امرك وامنعهم عن المخالفة او مشاهدا لاحوالهم من كفر وايمان { ما دمت فيهم } اى مدة دوامى فيما بينهم { فلما توفيتنى } اى قبضتنى اليك من بينهم ورفعتنى الى السماء { كنت أنت الرقيب عليهم } اى انت لا غيرك كنت الحافظ لاعمالهم والمراقب لها فمنعت من اردت عصمته عن المخالفة بالارشاد الى الدلائل والتنبيه عليها بارسال الرسول وانزال الآيات وخذلت من خذلت من الضالين فقالوا ما قالوا { وأنت على كل شىء شهيد } مطلع عليه مراقب له فعلى متعلقة بشهيد والتقديم لمراعاة الفاصلة.

Scans of Barailwi Urdu translation of Ruh Al-Bayan:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1641876969414444&set=pcb.1641877112747763&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1641876999414441&set=pcb.1641877112747763&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1641877032747771&set=pcb.1641877112747763&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1641877062747768&set=pcb.1641877112747763&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1641877079414433&set=pcb.1641877112747763&type=1&theater

 Speech of Imam ibn Jarir Tabari

After quoting Ashari and Maturidi scholar, lets see the speech of the Salafi Imam Tabari, whose Tafsir is the most popular and relied upon. Imam Tabari said in his Tafsir “Jami Al-Bayan” in Surah Maidah verse 109:

[Be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the Messengers and say, “What was the response you received?” They will say, “We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen“”

“Others said: The meaning of this “What was the response you received?” is: what did they do after you? What did they innovate (after you)?

Abul Qasim narrated to us: Al-Husayn narrated to us: Hajjaj narrated to us from ibn Jurayj: His saying: ““[Be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the Messengers and say, “What was the response you received?” means what did they do after you, what did they innovate after you? So they replied: “We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen”.

And the best of sayings is those who said: it means: we have no knowledge except a knowledge You know better….

As for what was said by ibn Jurayj that the meaning is: what the community did after them? What they innovated after them? It is a Taweel (Tafsir) that has no meaning, BECAUSE THE PROPHETS, THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT OCCURS AFTER THEM except what Allah taught them from it, so if they were to be asked about what their communities did after them and such was the case, they would be asked: “What did we taught you about what would happen to them after you?” and the apparent meaning of the information that Allah Ta’ala mentioned about them indicates other than this”

End of Imam Tabari speech

Note: if the Prophets were taught of everything that occurs in their community and were witnessing the actions of their communities, as believed by the Barailwis, the position of ibn Jurayj wouldnt be problematic for Imam Tabari. Imam Tabari only rejected the saying of ibn Jurayj as for him, there is no point of asking Prophets about the actions of their community after them because the Prophets were not aware of them except things taught to them by revelation.

Allah said:

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me – to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.” (Maidah 116-117)

Imam Tabari wrote in his Tafsir:

To worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them” he (Isa) will say: I was a witness over what they were doing WHILE I DWELVT AMONG THEM, over their actions and their sayings

but when You took me up“, he (Isa) will say: but when You took me to Yourself

You were the Observer over them“, he (‘Isa) will say You were Guardian (Hafeez) over them without me, AS I ONLY WITNESSED FROM THEIR ACTIONS WHAT THEY PERFORMED WHILE I DWELT AMONG THEM
.

And There is clarification in it that Allah (Ta’ala) only informed him of the actions of his people and their sayings after He took him to Him and raised Him, by His saying: “did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?”.

and You are, over all things, Witness“, he (‘Isa) will say: And You are witnessing all things, as nothing remains hidden to You, as for me, I only witnessed SOME MATTERS, and this was what I saw with my eyes WHILE I WAS RESIDING among my people, I am only a witness of that matters that I saw with my eyes, looked at and witnessed”

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639912549610886&set=pcb.1639912676277540&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639912572944217&set=pcb.1639912676277540&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639912602944214&set=pcb.1639912676277540&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639912626277545&set=pcb.1639912676277540&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1639912656277542&set=pcb.1639912676277540&type=1&theater